SYSTEM OF A DOWN : SUGAR RAY...GUN

Parisian meeting with guitarist and lyricist Daron Malakian, for the release of « Toxicity », after a totally stunning Reading gig...

-You have a new lp out, your second, « Toxicity » : what are for you the main differences with your first album ?

-DM : Just the personality, I think : it’s a different personality on this record than you’d get on the last record, because of life, experiences and things come and go in life and you write about them and they change and, those things changing, your music changes too.

-This first lp sold around eight hundred and fifty thousand : how did you live this success ?

-DM : I don’t even realize it and I don’t even care for it : I write my music to make art, I don’t write my music to make hits, I don’t try to write hits, but I was very surprised, because in general people who make art don’t usually get hits ! But I just stay true about all that...

-Daron, you wrote the main part of the lyrics this time...

-DM : It’s just natural, whatever came naturally, Serj and I both collaborated on lyrics. I’m not a singer, I used to be a singer before and that’s a thing I have always done, I have always sung in System of a Down, a little bit, not too much : I know I can write lyrics and I do without stepping on Serj’s feet too much and Serj’s on mine ; we worked together, on this one, more lyrically, and I think that’s also a difference on this record that you can see.

-Is it the main theme of the lp, « Toxicity », environment ? Or on a larger scale, human stupidity, which has a high degree of toxicity itself ?

-DM : I think it can seem different to different people : what you said can be true...

-Rick Rubin produced again : is he the best producer for SOAD ? And who mixed it ?

-DM : Yes, I think so : both Rick and me basically produced the record on this one. Rick is the guy who knows what we want to do, going to the studio, we already know what we want, so Rick is a great guy and a fan of the band and someone that I respect at the same time. So it’s cool to bring Rick in, because he brings the best out of the band, and I respect and I like that, I like having Rick on records and I hope I’ll work with him as much as I can : he has this large spectrum, from Slayer to Johnny Cash, and our music goes from Slayer to Johnny Cash, so we need somebody that understands all of it. That’s why he’s there : perfect ! Andy Wallace did the mix : you can’t say any more !

-During those three years, you’ve been touring a lot : do all those things you lived and saw feed this new record ? And do you see this recording like a break, a pause between tours, when you finally have time to write it down and eventually rest a bit ?

-DM : This is all a break : I play guitar in a rock’n’roll band. All I have is time keeps coming at me, time is like money that comes and passes you by, so it’s always a break : this is work, I’m sitting and talking to you, it’s no work for me !

-After seeing you in Reading, you’re a fantastic live band, considering the sound, the songs, the show, etc, but you seem to share and have enormous fun, specially Daron and you...

-DM : It’s different pleasures than studio work, but both good, both very important. The approach, when you got on stage and into a studio, is different : when you walk in a studio you can have the same mind as you do when you walk on stage ; it doesn’t have to be different, but it is for me. I love them both and there’s something I couldn’t live without : I love to be in front of the audience, and to be in a studio, either I produce, like this band « The ambulance », or I’m with my band, both are powerful and important to me.

-What are the most important things you’ve learned during those years around the world ?

-DM : I learned and I wish that more people can go out and see the rest of the world, I think it builds education, without reading anything or so, just makes your mind more open to different things, different cultures : before I came to France maybe, anything I knew about French people was what I learned in America. That’s not the truth, so I came to France and learned really what French people are like, and the same goes to the other cultures or the other countries. That’s what I’d hope, specially for the USA : more people could maybe go out, see the world, soak in the cultures, which is nice and is the growth. My parents are American and also Armenian, and so I have my own culture too. And sometimes I sit down and try to compare my own culture to other people’s and see how they are the same maybe ; there’s something that French and Armenians have in common, and French and Italian and Armenians have in common, and the Greek too, there’s a little of something in everybody, that’s nice !

-About « Chop suey » how did you choose that name to replace « Suicide », and why not « Suicide » ?

-DM : First of all, »Suicide » was not the name of the song, just a working title. We had thirty three songs ! Because the song had suicide in the lyrics, we used it for that. But the song « Bound » was also named « Pogo », « PJ », we change the names all the time. « Chop Suey » is not a song about suicide, and we didn’t want to make something so serious about it !

-This album is much more melodic sometimes : a new turn for SOAD ?

-DM : I guess so, but we had songs like « Spiders » before. That wasn’t on purpose, I don’t know why, it just felt right to do that, that’s where the path led us : sometimes I feel I write the music, but sometimes I feel I’m not even in control, as if it was somebody through my ears and my guitar and I’m just a messenger !

-About ATWA, Air Tree Water Animals, how do you feel about the controversy around Charles Manson’s name used for defend nature ?

-DM : I think people are afraid of what they don’t know, and a lot of people don’t know too much about Charles Manson except for what they see as a crazy guy in his cell. Go and listen to what he has to say. I have a lot of documentary videos about him, CD’s, different things, and I agree with him on a lot of topics, and if you‘ve ever heard him talk, he says you can’t drink water anymore, you can’t breathe the air anymore, and I agree with those things, it makes a lot of sense, it’s like somebody crying for help and nobody’s listening, everyone still kill themselves and he’s sort of like : « look what are you doing to yourself ». But he’s in jail, and he knows so much about everything that's going on, being in this little fucking hole ! I find it so interesting, I find him a very fascinating person and he’s just as evil as I am, and as good as I am too. There’s good and bad in everybody, and I’ve seen his good side...

-Talking about Manson, the other one, how was it to tour with him in England for Reading, Carling and Leeds/Glasgow ?

-DM : Oh, Marilyn ! I respect him, because when the Seattle music was out, with grunge bands, those guy were doing nice music, but there was no show. And when Marilyn Manson came around, he brought the show back into rock’n’roll. I missed that : when I was a kid in the eighties, I grew up on heavy metal stuff like Twisted Sister, and I always missed the hat tricks in the music, I have always found cool to have something visually fun to watch ! We do our own thing, we try to stay on our level, but I respect anyone doing also his own thing, like Manson does. There’s no competition, and there shouldn’t have no competition in art, because art is emotion and that’s like me competing with your emotions, that would be stupid !

-About environment, what do you think of the recent G8 meeting in Italy with the dead people and TV scandals with

cops ?

-DM : It’s a scary situation with global warming ; Serj knows more about that topic than me, but I will tell you what I think : it’s sort of like the Big Brother of America tries to become pretty much the leader of the world and in a very friendly way, take over the world, like Hitler almost. People don’t realize those similarities. It’s put under different names, smiles, but it’s not different from the nazis, propaganda and all this bullshit, it’s like having Hitler back in power, except that’s United States and we’re supposed to be the nice guys ! But we’re not !

(at the next table, Serj is talking about guitars)

-DM : So we reverse the roles !

-Would you record something for a cause like this ?

-DM : To raise money for it, you mean ? Maybe. We haven’t so far, and I don’t think we’re gonna get up and sing a song just about it. Maybe, later on. Serj usually writes the most political stuff for the band, so, if later on it grows into something more, maybe it will inspire him to write something for, maybe it doesn’t. But we won’t go out and say : »Hey, we’re System of a down and we have to write about the G8 ».

-In fact, in a festival in L.A you raised 20000 $ for the Armenian National Committee of America, supporting the recognition of the Armenian genocide.

-DM : It’s very important for us, in that I have a very big opinion on that, because my family died and I can’t trace my ancestors back before 1915, because they’re dead and I don’t know where my family comes from. That ‘s not even political, that’s personal : you killed my grandmother, so I’m gonna kick your ass ! So that’s something we take care for ourselves, it’s our own thing, and there’s aren't so many Armenian bands or people to get up and talk about that, so it’s our sort of responsibility to say that. I was in Amsterdam, in Holland, and they try to commemorate it with a statue too over there, and I think that it takes big balls to do it, because there’s a lot of money and politics against it : in France, in Holland, there’s a lot of Turkish people, and that fact implies to have bigger balls ! I respect that.

-Tell me about « Serjical Strike », the internet site for the book of poetry « Cool gardens », and the label, with three bands : « « Bad acid trip », « Kittens for Christian » and « Big Elf »

-DM : There has nothing to do with System, there’s definitely Serj’s thing : he has this label, with bands on it and friends, and that’s basically something he put up together to expose some bands and his book too.

-How do you see the internet in the future ? The last resort for freedom for artists and people in general ?

-DM : I’m not a big internet user, as opposed to Serj and Shavo. There’s good things about it, like : there’s a gun, and it depend how you use the gun, there are good and bad things about the internet. The bad thing is that people don’t talk to each other, face to face anymore, with no interaction, and that’s not good for the next generation of human beings : they won’t have the respect of life because they don’t see life in front of them, they talk to a computer ,which is a scary thing for me to wait for : in twenty years, the kids won’t make friends face to face because of personality. They’re not gonna be able to talk like me and you are talking, they’ll just talk in typing to each other. That’s scary ! But, in the other hand, it’s great because it helped us a lot, when we first came out, in 95 or 96 : we put our stuff on a computer and we had fans before we had an album, before we were signed because of the Net. In that way, it is positive. You can work it and make a very positive thing, there’s a lot of ways to make computers good, but, knowing as human beings are, every time they find something that’s good, it turns into bad : we made airplanes, we made men fly, and after we made men fly over other men and bomb them !

-What have been your musical discoveries since two years ?

-DM : I discovered a lot of old bands that I never listen to, but it’s difficult to mention all of them, there are so many ! It’s tough to mention just one, there’s so many great bands around here, like Iggy Pop : he’s not new for me, it’s an old influence. His new album is good, it rocks ! We were just a the Kerrang ! awards last night and he got an award for a lifetime achievement. It’s great, because he deserves it, it’s one of the greats of our time and he never got that, like the Rolling Stones, which I love by the way : he never sold those millions of records, but he created punk rock almost, that’s a big deal : there would have been no Marilyn Manson and many people if there had been no Iggy Pop. I’m glad he’s still around and getting respect : I’m happy to see that. I don’t know him as a friend or anything, I’m just a big fan, and I’ve always been disappointed that he never got enough. He has so many great songs : « China Girl » with David Bowie, « The passenger », « I got a right » with the Stooges, it’s not fair : put him in a Coliseum ! People don’t know, they buy what is sold to them on television !

-You said you’ve recorded 32 songs for the lp and that maybe there could be another one this year ... ?

-DM : All is possible ! But no. Basically, we start recording when we’re happy. In 1998 we released the first album, we toured, we didn't go home and say ok, we stop touring and go to a studio, to take some time off to write a record that we believe in. I don’t give a damn to anybody saying that he needs the record for December ; so I go : « Ok, you need the record for December, you’ll get it in December, but it’s not gonna be good. Wait a year, a year and a half, trust me ». We need to breed, to breath, to tour, to sit home, it’s not like making a fucking spoon, man ! It’s not the same line we’re after, you gotta give some space, maybe two weeks, nothing comes to you : what are you gonna do then ? You gotta give that time to put the record together, and not enough bands do : bands put out records, they get popular, and the year after they do it again, so at the end they have four records. The first one is good, but the three others sucks ! I would rather have two or three great records in my whole life than have five and only one listenable ! We’re not going to do like Radiohead, an album in two parts : we’re gonna use songs because we think they’re good. Some need a little bit of work, but there’s like fifteen songs we didn’t use. Honestly, I can say that nine or ten of those are good, and the rest need work. But the reason why we didn’t put that many songs on the album is because, when I walk into a studio, I tell Rick, I don’t want a record more than 45 minutes long. So we didn’t put these songs on it, but many bands would put 24 songs on the album. It’s like painting, you start to paint, then you paint again, then you keep painting on the painting, and at the end you just have paint, you know what I mean ? No one says « ok, that can wait maybe, those ideas can wait, this belongs together, this is tasteful ». I don’t care if it’s my ideas, I love all the songs. You don’t think about yourself, when you create art : you think about the art. Art is another thing in itself, it has nothing to do with me, me as ego and personality : those things can’t get in front of the art, that’s the most dangerous thing.

-Next step for you : tour of allegiance in USA with Slipknot, after Fuji tour in Japan : no Europe ? SOAD in France ?

-DM : I don’t know, but I’m sure early next year, sometime next year, because we have to do a couple of months in the States, and, by that time, it will be January, so, it’s hard to tell, but maybe before summer. Spring. I’d rather come in spring than winter. And for the French fans, I would say thanks for the respect, thanks for liking it. And if you don’t like it, fuck you ! (laugh)

On the cover sleeve of « Toxicity », the name of System of a down thumb one’s nose at the famous Hollywood logo, glory and grim of America : the World belong to them, they won it ! Nuff said.

Interview made in Paris by JP Coillard, August 29th 2001.

Photos JP Coillard ©.

« Toxicity » is available now on Columbia records

Many thanks to Nathalie Ridard, of Columbia records.

SOAD official web site : www.systemoadown.com

have a look on the previous interview with Shavo in Disturb for the first album !